Stronger or weaker in 8th ed.?

[patsy02]

Took a crap in 8:    Bretonnians   Sylvans    Vampires

NO SYMPATHY. The fuckers deserved getting dumped into the ditch.

[oglethorp]

dunno i see daemons way worse than vamps.

how is skaven top tier?

[HiredgoonThug]

Cheap slaves as Anvils, wicked magic and weapons teams as well as Lightning Cannons.  Plague Furnace in a unit of Plague Monks....

I'd say they may have a top tier build but most people will make a much more fun list with them, like O&G lists with the exceptions of ridiculous amounts of war machines.

[oglethorp]

yeah, but they only have access to the two skaven lores. so good but not great. they have anvils but no super killy units. their biggest thing is lots of cheap troops to not flee and warmachines.

i don't know the new skaven that well but that seems decent but not nearly as good as DE with almost unlimited powerdice and super killy units. or empire which has everything.

[HiredgoonThug]

Skaven also has a catapult and some really nasty beats like the Hellpit Abomination and Doomwheels!!!!!!!!!!

[Gandalf@losch.net]

only a max of 12 power dice for anyone per phase my pointy ear friend.  Boy, you study WHFB pretty intensely for someone who no longer partakes of the game???  As, Dave mentioned - the spells for skaven ( blaagh ) who needs 'em with the shooty phase they have.  Plus, horde rules, furnaces, abominations, RatOgres getting melee boosts.  It is merely speculation, more play testing must be done, but the initial outlook is gratifying.

[HiredgoonThug]

I love the new system.  My games relied on luck anyways.

[oglethorp]

only a max of 12 power dice for anyone per phase my pointy ear friend.  Boy, you study WHFB pretty intensely for someone who no longer partakes of the game???  As, Dave mentioned - the spells for skaven ( blaagh ) who needs 'em with the shooty phase they have.  Plus, horde rules, furnaces, abominations, RatOgres getting melee boosts.  It is merely speculation, more play testing must be done, but the initial outlook is gratifying.

well you are correct. only 12 dice so here's how my de magic phase goes. spell, spell that gives me d3+2 dice, spell, spell that gives me d3+2 dice, spell..., etc. essentially de with the correct build of wizards are able to easily get off 3-4 MAX dice spells where as most armies struggle to get off two max dice spells if that.

but yes gandalf, i have put a lot of studying into 8th. 7th turned into a crapshoot that was just luck and less strategy by the end of it. what i'm seeing of eighth; even more luck even less strategy. which is sad because i enjoyed whfb until GW decided they didn't care about game balance anymore.

dunno i'm not convinced about skaven until i see it. i think they are certainly better i just don't know how they hang with empire gunline type lists.

[High Loremaster]

dunno i'm not convinced about skaven until i see it. i think they are certainly better i just don't know how they hang with empire gunline type lists.

I'll agree that my money is on Empire being 8th's top army.

But your placement of Demons seems way off.  They were bar-none the best army in 7th, and they're still good for their points now.  I'd say at least middle.

[Snook]

Sooo, Chaos Dwarves are first right??? right guys?

[patsy02]

Certainly! Anything else would be shocking and outrageous.

[Snook]

indeed!!! 

[Gandalf@losch.net]

Also don't forget that in any single lore, no matter how many spellcasters you have, they may only possess a single spell once - ie., there can't be three level one battle mages running around with the fireball spell or something like that.

I agree that EMPIRE shall return to its rightful spot on the top of the heep.  Elves should do decently as well.  O&G should get a big boostie to their waaaaaaagh.  I have yet to play 8 so I can say nothing other than speculative nonsence at the moment.

[HiredgoonThug]

You can have the default spell multiple times, and there are items that some armies have that give a wizard an entire Lore, which still allows other casters to get spells from that Lore.

And there are Tomb Kings and Ogres who get all the spells anyways right?

[Gandalf@losch.net]

aaaaaaaah yes, army specific rules.  That's ok.  The more I research/plot out possible situations witht eh magic phase this edition.... the less I like the idea of creating 'ground zero'.