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Author Topic: Burial in Jerusalem  (Read 1580 times)
Marky Lazer
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« on: December 01, 2004, 11:21:56 PM »

Mohammed Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa Al-Husseini, Yasser Arafat rings a bell I guess, died this year on November 11. He was THE face of the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization. Now, he has died aged 75.

Jerusalem is a holy city for a lot of groups of people. Jews, Christians and it also is the third holy city of the Muslims. And even more for the Palestines. The Al-Aqsa mosk has been build there.

Now, all the Palestines wanted to bury their leader in Jerusalem. And it was Arafat's own wish too. But Israel thought otherwise. Now he is buried in Ramallah.

Do you agree or disagree with the opinion of Israel?
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Apache
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2004, 08:34:52 AM »

I disagree with Israel. As much as I dislike Arafat for some of the things he did in the last few years of his life, a burial in Jerusalem would be for religious purposes. The fact that the government denied it based on political reasons is unjust, in my opinion.
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I have no idea what you're trying to prove ... though it does thoroughly confuse and annoy me
Oddiz4You
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2004, 12:00:50 PM »

Well what you aren't considering Apache, is that while over here any religious activity seems to gain sanctuary from ridicule, over there it is different. Israel is run mainly by the laws of The Old Testament (they have a name for it) and their religion is something that always has its hand in everything they do. The Islamic nations are much the same, with their beliefs dominating the way they behave. Now what happens when two religions say the other is wrong? Over here of course we use our superior logic to realize that everything is right as long as a religious label is slapped on it and we need to accept everything, even when they contradict eachother. So I support their decision in not allowing what they view (and I do too) as a monster of a man waging war on their nation. Yes I know it can be horrible on both sides, but the Palestinians (they are just Arabs living in Israel because Palestine isn't even a recognized country) cannot try to claim friendship in order to share a contested religious city.  
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Marky Lazer
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2004, 06:58:01 PM »

Yes, Arafat was a terrorist. But East-Jerusalem is Palestinian, isn’t it? Doesn’t that make it ridiculous that Israel bosses the Palestines around?
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Oddiz4You
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2004, 11:01:58 PM »

Well the Palestinians really haev no right to be there in the first place. The entire land is just Israel. People claim that just because Israel wasn't officially established until the 20th Century, it never counted as a nation and had no right to the land. The fact is that they lived there for I don't know how many thousand years, and the Romans kicked them out, so Arabs from other nations came in. The Israelis have no where else to go, that is their only land, and it is incredibly small. All the surrounding nations, however, have more than enough room/food to assimilate all of the Palestinians with ease. But instead all of them simply support more suicide attacks on Israel and America. Us and Israel are the two biggest targets and have been for a long time. Us, I can understand, but Israel, why would they hate them? Personally, I believe the Bible to be true and it said that the sons of Ishmael would be at war eternally with the sons of Isaac, and both the Jews and Muslims claim Abraham as an ancestor (which would make sense). Basically, the Arabs need to get out and move into the other countries, they had no right to be there.
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under_score
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2004, 12:27:12 AM »

I dont know a whole lot on the subjetc but from what i cans see i would have to disagree with Isreal. If he had have been buried in Jerusalem then a hell of a lot of Palestines would have been very happy. I cant imagine to many isrealies getting over upset or worked up about it, and so to have him buried there would have benefitted more people then it would have disrupted. due to this i cant see the harm in it.

As i said though, i dont know a whole lot about it..
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2004, 01:12:17 AM »

I'm no great fan of alot of what the arabs do, but Israel is to blame for a hell of alot. give them back their damn land and get those tention inflaming settlers out of there. once they have their own country, half of Israels problems would be gone. simple as that really. I mean for hecks sake, would you rather be right or be happy? you can't have both in this case.
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Oddiz4You
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2004, 02:18:34 AM »

Actually I think you may be right. I don't feel they had an obligation to allow hi to be buried, but it very well may have eased much tension on both sides. Him on Earth, I don't know what you are talking about. I am not insulting you, but please read up on history before you make a statement like that. Israel owns that land, it always had until Rome came, and now they want it back. The arabs have the entire Middle East except for about .1% of the land, which is Israel.
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LongBeard
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2004, 07:08:15 AM »

  Yasser Arafat was a terrorist, terrorists have no rights. In 1957 Arafat helped found Fatah, a terrorist organization dedicated to the establishment of a Palestinian nation ALA Historic Palestine. Fatah was backed back by Syria, some other not so nice guys.

 "On March 2, 1973, members of the Palestinian Liberation Organization murdered U.S. Ambassador to the Sudan Cleo Noel and chargé d'affaires George Moore. The killers were captured by Sudan and admitted they had received orders directly from the PLO. U.S. intelligence officials were believed to also have evidence directly tying Arafat to the killings, but for unknown reasons suppressed. All the terrorists were released."

 "While George Bush was seen as the most sympathetic president the Palestinians had ever dealt with, Bill Clinton was viewed as clearly pro-Israel. This meant that the Palestinians would have to wait at least four years and hope another Bush would come along, but they realized this was unlikely."

Haha, how wrong can people be?

 At a meeting for peace at Camp David between Israel and Palestine, Arafat rejected all american and Israelie ideas and offered none of his own.

In closing, I don't like Arafat and him not being burried in Jerusalem doesn't bother me.  
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Cyzyk
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2004, 08:49:47 AM »

It's a corpse. Sharon hates Arabs too much to let them bury a dead one in his 'holy' nation? That's like saying we wouldn't let them bury Schwarzenegger in America because he's tainted politically due to his father being a Nazi.

Do you know how they treat the Palestinians? 'Like dirt', says a Jewish friend of mine who's been to Isreal. They live on one side of a line, pulling water out of a well on a rope, while on the other side of the line Israelis have dishwashers and cable television. You think this doesn't cause envy?

'If the Israelis could build themselves up, why can't the Palestinians?'
Because all of Europe and the US isn't full of people trying to make up for the atrocities done against Arabs during the crusades, the way they tried to make up for the Holocaust. Nobody seems to think that Reginald of Chatillon was as evil as any terrorist we have today, but he was.



<< they lived there for I don't know how many thousand years, >>


So did the Palestinians. Neither had a country under Rome or the Ottomans, but they still lived there. The majority of modern Israel is immigrants, not natives anyway.

The British 'gave' Israel to the Israelis in the 40's. Ten years earlier, they 'gave' Austria and Czechoslovakia to Hitler. The fact is, you have no right to give away something you don't own.
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Thought Engine
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2004, 07:57:06 AM »

There is a Yin and a Yang...people on both sides. You cannot defy one and love, the other, Oddiz and Cyzyk. Regardless of what is going on... one group has returned home after thousands of years, but is welcomed with hate, and another lies trodden upon in the dust by rich nations. Let the Palestinians bury his corpse where they may. He is dead, and that is all that matters. The struggle will burn on as long as humanity writhes on this rock. That I agree with oddiz about.


Infinite shades of gray
I close my eyes but still they pursue
I bury my head, but the date is till due
I muffle my ears, but the world still screams
It assaults my thoughts, invades my dreams

Popped into my head after reading the thread, god knows why.
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Marky Lazer
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2004, 12:49:00 AM »

People seem to forget one important fact. Jerusalem isn't only 'owned' by Israel. It's partly Israel and partly Palestinian. Why can't they bury their leader in their city?
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Bodhi
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2004, 09:22:29 AM »

"Yasser Arafat was a terrorist, terrorists have no rights. In 1957 Arafat helped found Fatah, a terrorist organization dedicated to the establishment of a Palestinian nation ALA Historic Palestine."

Isn't this just a matter of semantics? If they had allready had a nation they would be a nation fighting a war. If they fight a war dedicated to the formation of a nation they're terrorists. So terrorists are the "wrong" people fighting a war. I don't see anybody protesting for instance about the long war fought by the greeks against the Ottomans to gain THEIR independence. But then again had the greeks lost their war of independence they would probably be known in our history books as terrorists.
Recently saw a film called "The Munich strike" together with a palestinian friend of mine. It's a story about the secret police of Israel being sent out to kill various PLO leaders around the world sometime during the seventies and it IS based on a true story. In fact my friend had even been playing with a couple of those leaders as a child. Sending your own policeforce out to kill people in other countries surely should also be deemed terrorism according to most international laws shouldn't it?

I also have quite a few Jewish and Israelic friends and I'm in no way against Israel as a state but the whole situation - from both sides of the conflict - is just a very sad and depressing affair to which a solution now seems further of than ever. The disputes about the burial of Arafat are just the beginning I'm afraid.
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Oddiz4You
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2004, 11:27:08 AM »

Well everyone also seems to forget another thing: The Bible. Everyone thinks just because it is religious, if you don't follow that religion then everything said in it must be void. Except for the fact that the Old Testament is the HISTORY of Israel, and is one of, if not the most accurate documents dating back that far.  
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Marky Lazer
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2004, 06:51:24 PM »

Let us come up with another book. The Koran. It says Jerusalem is a holy city of the Muslims...

In other words bringing up the Bible doesn't make a lot of sense.
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