Unfair??? I don't think so...

[everclear]

the amount of points it takes to field 1 wraithlord and the points it cost to field a unit that can actually take one down makes the wraithlord unfair.

(i forget how many wounds a wraithlord has but im figuring its 3).  going along with the quick math of you hit 50% of the time and wound 50% of the time it would take 3 havoc squads to bring one down.  thats like 600-700 points compared to 90 (guessing on points for wraithlord and havoc squad dont have codes with me)  not sure if that is an extreme example but even if its half that a 90 point model should be able to stand up to 300-350 points of firepower

sorry i didnt make my point clearer on my first post and for the bad example.

[Jashin]

lol, anybody playing a massive wraith lord army sohuld have no prob defeating them if they are playing as sm or eldar. all u need are sniper rifles. one scout sqd can decimate 3 wratihlords in farily short time.

[blasmeister]

exodes - it wouuld cost a good bit more than 225pts to field 3 wraithlords as they have to take a heavy weapon, but i see your point

everclear - or, the same havoc squad for 3 turns shooting, less points for that.

[SkavenNecron]

Bad everclear! Bad! Never trust statistics and averages! They lie! LIE!At any rate, my Emperor's Children Army would shatter any Wraithlords before they got the chance to shoot. Emperor's Children have incredibly nasty shooting. Three Wrathlords will cost 225ts before weapons. With the Cheapest weapon options, that's around another 150pts. 375pts for three Wraithlords. My Heavy Support is only slightly more expenisve. I could easily kill off 1 Wraithlord and put two wounds on another in the first turn...and that' before my Daemon Prince gets into Hand to Hand with one. I've never seen anyone field three Wraithlords. If they do, you can claim a moral victory 'cause they cheesed out. And you can still beat them with superior tactics.

[everclear]

scouts and snipers are nasty against the wraithlord, but unless your playing sm or eldar u dont have that option.

how is that fair for the dozen or so armies out there that cant field em

[SkavenNecron]

Anywho, my point is, a single Wraithlord isn't cheesy. Taking three, on the other hand...that is. The only two units I'll admit are anything near cheesy on thier own are Harlequin Wraithlords, which are the same as normal Wraithlords, but count as being in cover in HtH, force any LD test taken by enemies in HtH to be at -1 LD, and always count as having a 4+ cover save in addition to their 3+ armour save. They cost 95pts. Now that's pushing it. But I *think* they're 0-1.
The other unit is the Harlequin Solitare...WS8, immune to all Ld tests ever required, counts as cover, 4+ cover save, pursues 3D6, -1 LD for enemies, can be tooled up to wound on a 2+, negate armour saves (must choose between negating saves or wounding on a 2+, can't do both) and  have +2 attacks, make enemies fall back d6 inches less than normal, can only be hit on 6s in HtH, AND! Can cahrge 12", but for each unused inch up to 6 gets +1 attack. So, it can have 12 attacks that wound on a 2+. And it will strike first. And will almost always hit on a 3+. It's sick. tooled up and everything it's around 120pts. I've killed an entre squad of Dark Eldar Warriors, a speical home made Dark Eldar Wraithlord, and an Archon and his Incubi retinue with one. All the the same turn. Owee. 'course, it's T3, so if you some how survive, or can shoot it, it's as good as dead.

Edit: However, if being used as a pure Harlequin force, your most basic troopers are 25pts and without a Wraithlord or Death Jesters (a very expensive (43pt) Elite choice), you have little long range support, and so will ahve to rely on Fleet of Foot, your 4+ cover save, very frail transports that count as a Heavy Support choice, or your Shadowseers Psychic Powers to survive long enough to get into HtH, where the Harlequis will crush thier foes...Man I hope Harlequins get a Codex, and the models are re-released. I don't really care if their redesigned.

[everclear]

i dont think wraithlords have to take a hvy wpn

[SkavenNecron]

Well, I dunno. But then thier almost completely useless, as they wo't shoot beyond a 12" Shuriken Catapult range or FLamer Template. And any, and I mean any army will easily gun them down before they get close enough to charge in to HtH. They are sloooooooow.....

[Exodes]

reading my eldar book it says "a wraithlord MAY take ..." so it I model them with 0 heav weapons I think my math holds up alight. Not that I've ever used it, but I've been tempted.. too many 1000 point games where I run into 300 point HQs that are near invincible to troops or chaos armies with both a blood thirster and a greater demon.. normal troops can't even begin to hurt these guys before their dying 5-8 at a time.

[Erik the mighty]

Wraith lords ARE required to take heavy weapons, it was updated since the codex's printing.

[Farseer Dracos]

Yes, Wraithlords are now requiredto select a heavy weapon...though why wouldn't you? Anyhow, they most certainly are by no means a cheesy unit. Anyone who's ever seen a Wraithlord fielded against Tau knows this quite well. Mine's usually little more than a glorified fire magnet, though it does do the job well.

[Exodes]

Have they updated the codex? I havn't seen that, I love 40k but dont pick up every update for it.

In any case I still think with bright lances and star cannons their well worth their points.

I think cheesy can be somewhat relative too. You can make a fun fluffy army and lose horribly to a power
gamer's army, its possibly you can win with some good tactics and luck, but its substantionally harder.

Personally I take a nice well rounded fluffy army, but against a few of my friends it doesnt matter what I have their armies are always powered up to the hilt and thats no fun for me to play... its like I line up my models to remove them. For myself I've found I have no fun losing most of my games, so I bring my harder than normal army to these games and have fun duking it out monster army to monster army.

Getting 4 10 man tactical squads mashed in 2-3 turns to a deamon prince, a blood letter and bloodletters just isnt fun in my books. Now if he wants to take that up against my 10 man seer council, thats alot more fun.

[Apache]

Why are sniper rifles so good againts Wraithlords? So, the wound on 4+, you can get heavy weapons that wound on 3+ and ignore the armor save.  

[Erik the mighty]

Yes but sniper rifles also hit on a 2+ and cost less than those heavy weapons, increasing their power.

[Exodes]

Eril speaks the truth, but the wraithlord also gets his better than average (well arguably) 3+ save against sniper rifles so unless you've got quite a few snipers (which get exspensive) I dont think you'll take down 3 wraithlords with a single sqaud. Using the simple "% rules of averages" which really is so totally flawed in a luck/dice based game your only doing 2.4 wounds a turn.. a 10 man scout squad with 9 sniper rifles is costing you 175 points. Thats not much cheaper than those wraithlords and in my books definately not a guaranteed way of killing them. Eldar snipers are a whole diffrent story, but their not exactly cheap either.